Losing my religion - the dating game
JDate.
An internet love match site bringing Jewish singles together worldwide.
Did you know that JDate is a subsidiary website of the company Spark Networks?
Well, check out this for a scoop.
JDate Subscription
1 Month - $34.95, $34.95 monthly thereafter
3 Months - $99.95, $33.95 monthly thereafter
6 months - $149.00, then only 24.95 thereafter
American Singles Subscription
1 Month - $24.95, $24.95 monthly thereafter
3 Months - $59.95, then JUST $19.99 monthly thereafter
The cost of subscribing to JDate is nearly double that of subscribing to a general, non-Jewish singles website. Even though both sites are owned by the same company, with the same look, feel, technology and presumably, set up cost.
Why?
I believe that this represents the desperation amongst singles in the Jewish community to find their significant other.
This leads me to the following conclusion.
Some of the biggest anti-semites today are the youth of the Jewish community.
Sweeping statement? Let me explain.
I have no time for racism.
Racism can be defined as "a form of discrimination based on race, especially the belief that one race is superior to another. Racism may be expressed individually and consciously, through explicit thoughts, feelings, or acts, or socially and unconsciously, through institutions that promote inequality between races."
As a white, Jewish, Eastern suburbs 25 year old male (read: as an insulated member of the Jewish community), I have been extremely lucky such that my experiences of anti-Semitism have been restricted to the aftermath of Bulldogs games, where a cavalcade of souped-up cars from the Western suburbs descends upon Bondi and the occasional moron proclaims "a Roosters victory had to be the result of a Jewish conspiracy, man."
Maybe I'm making too much of a generalisation here. I would hate to lump together all the fans of a football team, especially a team with as much moral fibre as the Bulldogs, the football club synonymous with the expression "gang rape". I'm sure there are plenty of people associated with the Bulldogs who aren't gang rapists.
See how easy it is to stir racist attitudes? This is a trick of language employed by the right-wing 'shock-jocks' on talkback radio, consisting of the following steps.
1. Refer to something bad that a person has done. This arouses emotional feelings of contempt for the person.
2. Imply or draw particular attention to racial characteristics of that person. This stimulates imagery of what the person looks like, how they sound and how they act. This also stimulates generalisation of the types of actions we can expect from people with certain racial characteristics.
3. A passive exception to the generalisation. Often this will be worded "I'm not trying to say that all people from this race are bad". What remains unsaid here is "Not that I'm trying to disuade you from coming to this conclusion."
It's the power of language combined with a strong, unwilting preconception of a particular group of people.
In short, it's racist.
Racism touches everybody. Wars have been fought on the basis of racist attitudes and religious differences.
So, as an insulated member of the Jewish community, I belong to a club that has struggled for survival against preconceptions for over 5000 years.
Typically, each time anti-Semitism prospered and someone tried to kill us, we survived. Generally, we celebrate this survival by eating fatty food, such as gefilte fish and potato latkes, in large quantities,.
Today, however, the Jewish community faces its greatest threat.
Assimilation. Literally meaning, the process whereby a minority group gradually adopts the customs and attitudes of the prevailing culture.
The death of a culture. Powerful stuff.
There are plenty of ways for a Jew to assimilate.
Some of them are really tasty, such as seafood dinners and hungover bacon breakfasts.
Others include going to work drinks or hitting up a nightclub on a Friday night.
One of my favourites was the Jewish sporting organisation that played all its matches on a Saturday.
The list goes on.
More often than not, the most exemplary form of assimilation is marrying out of the religion.
This makes single Jews the biggest threat to the Jewish race.
And as is the guilt-ridden nature of our religion, don't think we don't know it. The subtle hints from mothers and grandmothers - "Wouldn't it be nice if you settled down with a nice Jewish girl?". Ok, maybe not so subtle, but certainly persistent.
Assuming that a person will marry someone Jewish, there is a fairly large chance that their life partner will come out of the community of people that the person is surrounded by.
1. We know everyone else
As is the nature of community, everyone seems to know everyone else. What is disgregarded here is the extent to which everyone knows everyone.
I have my close circle of mates - my nearest and dearest.
Extending past that is a throng of people who I barely know.
The issue, however, is not that I barely know them. It's that I've barely known them for so long.
So, assuming I'm to end up with someone in my community and that I'm not about to marry one of my mates, I'm probably going to have to get to know someone, who I've barely known for quite a long time now, a lot better.
Surely, then, this is where dating comes in?
2. The stigma attached to dating
My understanding is that this is fairly specific to the Sydney Jewish Community, but I would say that dating is a taboo topic. This is probably because the fact is that dating a girl from one social group automatically eliminates any chance of ever dating:
i) one of her friends
ii) anyone from a social group that doesn't like her social group
iii) anyone else who hears that you dated her and jumps to automatic conclusions about you
Girls know this and don't date boys for the same reasons.
Notwithstanding that all this goes on under the spotlight of anyone who is remotely affiliated with either of the potential daters.
And all of these points are moot because dating is taboo to begin with.
We know this, so socialising and flirting with members of the opposite sex will generally take place in a group environment in whatever bar the community congregates at. Of course, not only does this make the Jewish bar-of-the-month go out of business due to lack of alcohol consumption, but these interactions generally lead nowhere because we've barely known each other for so long, that there seems no reason to get to know someone now.
I would go so far as to say that these weekly (sometimes more frequent) gatherings of the community actually inhibit our ability to make connections with people, as we barely know so many people who we see so often, we become accustomed to accepting a superficial connection with a large number of people.
3. So, how do I meet someone new?
Great question. Most people don't have this issue because they're not trying to limit themselves to finding a life partner amidst an extremely small sub-segment of the population. To people whom religion is not important, a life partner can easily be found through having something in common, such as work or a hobby. Want to meet someone new? Join a club. Start playing a sport. Learn salsa dancing.
For the Jewish community, it's entirely different. Options include hanging out in Coogee waiting for American exchange students, or hitting the internet.
And this brings me to the latest phenomenon sweeping the Jewish community.
JDate.
You know what the biggest problem with JDate is?
I'll give you a hint. It's not that they charge for a monthly membership.
It all comes back to the stigma. I guarantee that every person who logs on to JDate to look at a profile thinks at some point,
"Wow. Look at all these desperate people. As if I would ever go out with anyone desperate enough to put their profile up on here."
That's like walking into a bar, declaring yourself too classy to stay, but nonetheless stumbling home at 4am, with a lamb kebab tucked under your arm and vomit encrusted to the soles of your shoes.
The only way we can break down the dating stigma is by saying, "Hey, maybe the person I'm looking at is looking for the same thing I'm surfing this website for?"
4. I'm too good for this party.
My sister summarises this quite well in saying, " "Everyone rates themselves too highly. They need to waiver this idea of 'choice and standards' and let an objective neutral observer match people. Everyone over-estimates their league."
Now, I would never accuse my sister of having standards. However, I do accuse her of having made many choices.
Anyways, she makes a very good point. Perhaps, as individuals, we socially rate ourselves so high, to the point of snobbery, that we are unable to lower our social expectations to the level of a normal human being.
The solution is as follows. Next time you go to a bar, ask someone from the opposite
sex to rate everyone in the bar (1-10). Then, subtly (hours later), ask the same person who in the room they could see you with.
Whatever score that person had, that's your score. You should then be looking for people of the same score.
5. Party? What's a party?
Working around the theory that single Jews polarise towards the "too cool" segment, there is an equally large proporation of single Jews sitting at the other extreme.
The Nebish. The little nerd. The loser.
The best word you can usually use to describe someone nebish is "nice".
They are the ones on JDate with profiles saying
"I am a passionate guy that loves life and all that it has to offer."
"I am easy going, open-minded, down to earth, happy guy."
"I'm a caring and loving person."
Would you introduce yourself to someone like that? No wonder you're single.
If you had to define yourself in a sentence, why would you start like that? To make yourself impossible to differentiate from the other singles in the pack?
It's because you're Nebish.
Don't get me wrong. I'm Nebish. I like Nebish. Nebish is wholesome.
But when Nebish makes you the kind of guy who takes a girl out for drinks and goes 50/50 on the first round?
When Nebish means that you're out with a girl and the sun goes down, but you don't suggest dinner because your mum has never let you eat out at dinnertime?
C'mon boys - sometimes you've got to take responsibility for yourself.
6. Well, what am I looking for, anyways?
Looking around, I see many examples of people my age facing the predicament of finding the perfect, Jewish person for them.
Note, the two characteristics here - Perfect and Jewish. Separation of these suggests that it is possible to find:
a) Someone who is perfect for you, but not Jewish
b) Someone who is Jewish (and you could introduce to your mother), but far from a perfect match.
And given that this is the person you theoretically have to spend the rest of your life with, you need to work under the false assumption that as a Jewish boy, you won't end up marrying someone who fills the role of your mother.
By the time my parents were my age, they had already given birth to me. This suggests that perhaps they were more focussed at settling down than I am. A quick survey of my mates conveys similar experiences.
In fact, what my mates are looking for are the kind of girl who they could marry, but who is willing to enter into a non-committal relationship, with an implication that while they may one day get married, discussion of this should not exist under any circumstances and any references to the relationship, including the discussion "Where is this going?" should be had between girlfriends, preferably at their time of month.
So, in summary, what we are looking for is a girl who is:
* Good looking
* Intelligent
* From a wealthy background
* Who dresses well without spending too much time and money on her appearance
* Who will not become my mother
* Who is single (ideally)
* Who does not have crazy parents
* Who doesn't mind a non-committed long term relationship.
and who is
* Jewish
Want to know why you haven't found what you're looking for? IT DOESN'T EXIST!
7. Conclusion
I reiterate that the greatest threat to the survival and continuity of the Jewish community is the anti-social behaviour of young, single Jews. In fact, it defies logic that Jewish youth are so pre-occupied with fighting this anti-social behaviour with the intention of propogating it for generations to come.
So, to fix the problems facing my people, I've decided to throw a party. A massive party. An appeal.
I'm going to call it the Jewish Sex Appeal.
Keynote speaker Ron Jeremy.
The largest game of Spin the Bottle in Jewish community history.
A room full of closets that potential couples can be locked in, until magic happens.
It will break down the walls of inhibition for good.
Sex to save the religion. Now, there's a concept we can all get into.
An internet love match site bringing Jewish singles together worldwide.
Did you know that JDate is a subsidiary website of the company Spark Networks?
Well, check out this for a scoop.
JDate Subscription
1 Month - $34.95, $34.95 monthly thereafter
3 Months - $99.95, $33.95 monthly thereafter
6 months - $149.00, then only 24.95 thereafter
American Singles Subscription
1 Month - $24.95, $24.95 monthly thereafter
3 Months - $59.95, then JUST $19.99 monthly thereafter
The cost of subscribing to JDate is nearly double that of subscribing to a general, non-Jewish singles website. Even though both sites are owned by the same company, with the same look, feel, technology and presumably, set up cost.
Why?
I believe that this represents the desperation amongst singles in the Jewish community to find their significant other.
This leads me to the following conclusion.
Some of the biggest anti-semites today are the youth of the Jewish community.
Sweeping statement? Let me explain.
I have no time for racism.
Racism can be defined as "a form of discrimination based on race, especially the belief that one race is superior to another. Racism may be expressed individually and consciously, through explicit thoughts, feelings, or acts, or socially and unconsciously, through institutions that promote inequality between races."
As a white, Jewish, Eastern suburbs 25 year old male (read: as an insulated member of the Jewish community), I have been extremely lucky such that my experiences of anti-Semitism have been restricted to the aftermath of Bulldogs games, where a cavalcade of souped-up cars from the Western suburbs descends upon Bondi and the occasional moron proclaims "a Roosters victory had to be the result of a Jewish conspiracy, man."
Maybe I'm making too much of a generalisation here. I would hate to lump together all the fans of a football team, especially a team with as much moral fibre as the Bulldogs, the football club synonymous with the expression "gang rape". I'm sure there are plenty of people associated with the Bulldogs who aren't gang rapists.
See how easy it is to stir racist attitudes? This is a trick of language employed by the right-wing 'shock-jocks' on talkback radio, consisting of the following steps.
1. Refer to something bad that a person has done. This arouses emotional feelings of contempt for the person.
2. Imply or draw particular attention to racial characteristics of that person. This stimulates imagery of what the person looks like, how they sound and how they act. This also stimulates generalisation of the types of actions we can expect from people with certain racial characteristics.
3. A passive exception to the generalisation. Often this will be worded "I'm not trying to say that all people from this race are bad". What remains unsaid here is "Not that I'm trying to disuade you from coming to this conclusion."
It's the power of language combined with a strong, unwilting preconception of a particular group of people.
In short, it's racist.
Racism touches everybody. Wars have been fought on the basis of racist attitudes and religious differences.
So, as an insulated member of the Jewish community, I belong to a club that has struggled for survival against preconceptions for over 5000 years.
Typically, each time anti-Semitism prospered and someone tried to kill us, we survived. Generally, we celebrate this survival by eating fatty food, such as gefilte fish and potato latkes, in large quantities,.
Today, however, the Jewish community faces its greatest threat.
Assimilation. Literally meaning, the process whereby a minority group gradually adopts the customs and attitudes of the prevailing culture.
The death of a culture. Powerful stuff.
There are plenty of ways for a Jew to assimilate.
Some of them are really tasty, such as seafood dinners and hungover bacon breakfasts.
Others include going to work drinks or hitting up a nightclub on a Friday night.
One of my favourites was the Jewish sporting organisation that played all its matches on a Saturday.
The list goes on.
More often than not, the most exemplary form of assimilation is marrying out of the religion.
This makes single Jews the biggest threat to the Jewish race.
And as is the guilt-ridden nature of our religion, don't think we don't know it. The subtle hints from mothers and grandmothers - "Wouldn't it be nice if you settled down with a nice Jewish girl?". Ok, maybe not so subtle, but certainly persistent.
Assuming that a person will marry someone Jewish, there is a fairly large chance that their life partner will come out of the community of people that the person is surrounded by.
1. We know everyone else
As is the nature of community, everyone seems to know everyone else. What is disgregarded here is the extent to which everyone knows everyone.
I have my close circle of mates - my nearest and dearest.
Extending past that is a throng of people who I barely know.
The issue, however, is not that I barely know them. It's that I've barely known them for so long.
So, assuming I'm to end up with someone in my community and that I'm not about to marry one of my mates, I'm probably going to have to get to know someone, who I've barely known for quite a long time now, a lot better.
Surely, then, this is where dating comes in?
2. The stigma attached to dating
My understanding is that this is fairly specific to the Sydney Jewish Community, but I would say that dating is a taboo topic. This is probably because the fact is that dating a girl from one social group automatically eliminates any chance of ever dating:
i) one of her friends
ii) anyone from a social group that doesn't like her social group
iii) anyone else who hears that you dated her and jumps to automatic conclusions about you
Girls know this and don't date boys for the same reasons.
Notwithstanding that all this goes on under the spotlight of anyone who is remotely affiliated with either of the potential daters.
And all of these points are moot because dating is taboo to begin with.
We know this, so socialising and flirting with members of the opposite sex will generally take place in a group environment in whatever bar the community congregates at. Of course, not only does this make the Jewish bar-of-the-month go out of business due to lack of alcohol consumption, but these interactions generally lead nowhere because we've barely known each other for so long, that there seems no reason to get to know someone now.
I would go so far as to say that these weekly (sometimes more frequent) gatherings of the community actually inhibit our ability to make connections with people, as we barely know so many people who we see so often, we become accustomed to accepting a superficial connection with a large number of people.
3. So, how do I meet someone new?
Great question. Most people don't have this issue because they're not trying to limit themselves to finding a life partner amidst an extremely small sub-segment of the population. To people whom religion is not important, a life partner can easily be found through having something in common, such as work or a hobby. Want to meet someone new? Join a club. Start playing a sport. Learn salsa dancing.
For the Jewish community, it's entirely different. Options include hanging out in Coogee waiting for American exchange students, or hitting the internet.
And this brings me to the latest phenomenon sweeping the Jewish community.
JDate.
You know what the biggest problem with JDate is?
I'll give you a hint. It's not that they charge for a monthly membership.
It all comes back to the stigma. I guarantee that every person who logs on to JDate to look at a profile thinks at some point,
"Wow. Look at all these desperate people. As if I would ever go out with anyone desperate enough to put their profile up on here."
That's like walking into a bar, declaring yourself too classy to stay, but nonetheless stumbling home at 4am, with a lamb kebab tucked under your arm and vomit encrusted to the soles of your shoes.
The only way we can break down the dating stigma is by saying, "Hey, maybe the person I'm looking at is looking for the same thing I'm surfing this website for?"
4. I'm too good for this party.
My sister summarises this quite well in saying, " "Everyone rates themselves too highly. They need to waiver this idea of 'choice and standards' and let an objective neutral observer match people. Everyone over-estimates their league."
Now, I would never accuse my sister of having standards. However, I do accuse her of having made many choices.
Anyways, she makes a very good point. Perhaps, as individuals, we socially rate ourselves so high, to the point of snobbery, that we are unable to lower our social expectations to the level of a normal human being.
The solution is as follows. Next time you go to a bar, ask someone from the opposite
sex to rate everyone in the bar (1-10). Then, subtly (hours later), ask the same person who in the room they could see you with.
Whatever score that person had, that's your score. You should then be looking for people of the same score.
5. Party? What's a party?
Working around the theory that single Jews polarise towards the "too cool" segment, there is an equally large proporation of single Jews sitting at the other extreme.
The Nebish. The little nerd. The loser.
The best word you can usually use to describe someone nebish is "nice".
They are the ones on JDate with profiles saying
"I am a passionate guy that loves life and all that it has to offer."
"I am easy going, open-minded, down to earth, happy guy."
"I'm a caring and loving person."
Would you introduce yourself to someone like that? No wonder you're single.
If you had to define yourself in a sentence, why would you start like that? To make yourself impossible to differentiate from the other singles in the pack?
It's because you're Nebish.
Don't get me wrong. I'm Nebish. I like Nebish. Nebish is wholesome.
But when Nebish makes you the kind of guy who takes a girl out for drinks and goes 50/50 on the first round?
When Nebish means that you're out with a girl and the sun goes down, but you don't suggest dinner because your mum has never let you eat out at dinnertime?
C'mon boys - sometimes you've got to take responsibility for yourself.
6. Well, what am I looking for, anyways?
Looking around, I see many examples of people my age facing the predicament of finding the perfect, Jewish person for them.
Note, the two characteristics here - Perfect and Jewish. Separation of these suggests that it is possible to find:
a) Someone who is perfect for you, but not Jewish
b) Someone who is Jewish (and you could introduce to your mother), but far from a perfect match.
And given that this is the person you theoretically have to spend the rest of your life with, you need to work under the false assumption that as a Jewish boy, you won't end up marrying someone who fills the role of your mother.
By the time my parents were my age, they had already given birth to me. This suggests that perhaps they were more focussed at settling down than I am. A quick survey of my mates conveys similar experiences.
In fact, what my mates are looking for are the kind of girl who they could marry, but who is willing to enter into a non-committal relationship, with an implication that while they may one day get married, discussion of this should not exist under any circumstances and any references to the relationship, including the discussion "Where is this going?" should be had between girlfriends, preferably at their time of month.
So, in summary, what we are looking for is a girl who is:
* Good looking
* Intelligent
* From a wealthy background
* Who dresses well without spending too much time and money on her appearance
* Who will not become my mother
* Who is single (ideally)
* Who does not have crazy parents
* Who doesn't mind a non-committed long term relationship.
and who is
* Jewish
Want to know why you haven't found what you're looking for? IT DOESN'T EXIST!
7. Conclusion
I reiterate that the greatest threat to the survival and continuity of the Jewish community is the anti-social behaviour of young, single Jews. In fact, it defies logic that Jewish youth are so pre-occupied with fighting this anti-social behaviour with the intention of propogating it for generations to come.
So, to fix the problems facing my people, I've decided to throw a party. A massive party. An appeal.
I'm going to call it the Jewish Sex Appeal.
Keynote speaker Ron Jeremy.
The largest game of Spin the Bottle in Jewish community history.
A room full of closets that potential couples can be locked in, until magic happens.
It will break down the walls of inhibition for good.
Sex to save the religion. Now, there's a concept we can all get into.
posted by The Groin at 11:51 am
9 Comments:
I like the massive party idea. It has been years since a good game of STB. Alternatively we could go back to the Shtettle (very poor transliteration)days, appoint a yenta and take what we get given? We are basically living in an Uber Shtettle in the east - Vaucluse, Rose Bay, Bellevue Hill, Bondi/Junction.
Great article as always. Love reading them on a Fri just before Shabbos.
Adam W
Shtine, take it from me - a long time listener, first time caller - that this is your best work yet. But as you have implicitly levelled the finger of accusation in my direction and decried me and my shiksa-dating ilk as racist, I feel obliged to come the defence of myself and others who, like me, appreciate blonde hair and a boyish figure. (Obviously, I am being facetious and have selected my present - non-Jewish - partner for far less superficial reasons).
Anyway, enough throat clearing and down to brass tacks. First, I think that many of your readers will agree that theology is not the point. It is true that many young Jews in Sydney and elsewhere are very devout and can be proud of their faith in God. On the other hand, the majority, I think you will agree, do not approach Judaism from a spiritual perspective. They may be rationally agnostic, yet still feel a sufficient cultural and historical connection to our shared heritage to identify themselves as Jewish and to observe our ceremonies. I have been an atheist for some time, yet I conduct my own level of observance for personal, cultural and other non-theological reasons.
So if the motivation for maintaining our bloodline through "marrying in" is not theological, what is it? You suggest that it is based in the repeated attempts at extermination of the Jewish people over the last 4000 years. If it happened that my children were not raised Jewish, the fact that all my ancestors, who struggled to maintain their Judaism in the face of great hostility, would turn in their graves would bother me greatly. My grandfather was a very devout man who lost everybody close to him (including his first wife and child) in the Holocaust. Most of the rest of his generation in my family had similar experiences. It is true that it would break his heart if I were to marry out. This history of Jewish strength in the face of prejudice is, you say, the compelling reason to choose a Jewish partner.
I wonder if this is, or should be, the case. As I said, I am an atheist. Moreover, I think that religion (the concept as a whole, not restricted to Judaism) has had a negative effect on the history of mankind, as the repeated attempted extermination of the Jews has shown. The sword, of course, cuts both ways, and many would claim that the present Israeli policy in relation to Palestine has a religious basis. Nor are the Christian nor the Moslem religions anything approaching blameless. The Crusades and 9/11 are trite examples.
So I find myself asking myself why I should perpetuate a mistake that I perceive mankind to have made over the last 4000 years. There is no rational reason to differentiate ourselves on the basis of something as arbitrary as religion. That, of course, is my own view only and others, including my ancestors, take different views. But why should my view, rationally arrived at, be afforded less priority that theirs when I make fundamental choices about my own life, such as who to marry, and what to believe?
I acknowledge that implicit in this approach to Judaism is the end of a rich and cultural heritage. Perhaps it is possible to separate the religious from the cultural and maintain the rich tradition and history without the culture of difference that religious belief necessarily entails. But if it is not do not call me racist because I have chosen to live my life on my terms after a well-considered rejection of religion on both a theological and social level. Like everybody, I only have one shot at life and I am not going to subjugate my own approach to life to an approach with which I disagree, simply on the basis that the latter came first. Mistakes should be corrected, not perpetuated. I mean no disrespect to the victims of religious purges when I say that it is the arbitrary differention of humanity that religion entails that caused those purges to occur.
Shtine, we have much more than barely known each other for long enough for me to be certain that you will not take offence at the views I express above. I hope that your readers are equally as reasonable. I hope that they understand that life is a complicated affair that everyone must approach courageously, questioningly and, most importantly, on one's own intellectually honst terms.
I have to say first that yourself and your friends were nothing but hospitable to me when I visited. I had NEVER had contact with anyone Jewish, much less a community, until I hit Sydney. I must say, y'all took hospitality to near Southern standards.
I think sis is right. We do hold potential significants to a much higher level than others (and often, ourselves).
But I think that maturity plays a significant role. Our standards are different than our parents, who were married in a different age. Where they were in their lives is different than where we were in ours. We simply discover what is important in a wife/husband later in life. As we age, I think that our standards change, not to get lower, but to become much more realistic.
Since I graduated Uni, I can tell that my standards have changed significantly. Instead of looking for a girl all the guys stare at, I look for one that I can carry on a decent conversation with.
What I'm getting at is that the nerdy qualities you describe become increasingly more important as people mature and realize the value in them.
Basically, play it cool until those around you are looking for the same thing you are. It may take longer, but it is better in the end than making a huge mistake now.
Keep this in mind: In traditional southern families, courting is becoming increasingly more popular. Courting means that your sisters described method of pairing is conciously preformed by a third party, usually a religious authority figure. No dates, just chaperoned meetings and social events. I know of one marriage that began as such a relationship.
Its weird, but you have to wonder if its any worse than the way normal people do it.
Grunners, good article. Says exactly what I have thought of the whole Jewish community dating thing since I left school... which is one point you forgot to make here.
I honestly thank G-d that I didn't go to either Moriah or Masada, because that way I would have had the same crowd of "barely known" people and the same problems with looking past the crowds and cliques, the ex-daters and the stigmas unfairly attached to perfectly nice, reasonable people... As it was, I "entered the scene" at the relatively late age of 18, and I had the distinct advantage that every night at the Sheaf (or wherever) resulted in me meeting totally new people.
Which resulted, of course, in me meeting my husband. Had I paid any attention to the crowd he was in, or the girls he had previously dated, I don't think we would have ever gone out on our first date.
I also don't think that everyone knows everyone, so eventually if you actually make an effort, you'll meet new people from the community who you never even knew existed. There are the Yeshiva girls and boys, who are not as they would seem (not all are as religious as you think), and people who went to public schools and thus didn't have contact with "the crowd" as they were growing up.
And, there's nothing wrong with JDate. If you know what you want, then why not be obvious about trying to get it?
Debbie D (now B)
JDate. Well, it's good, isn't it, except that in Sydney it isn't a good value proposition - Consider this:
Someone who joins JDate in New York pays 35 bucks a month to be able to chat to thousands upon thousands of nice hot jews. It's a good value deal to pay $35, where you can really have a lot of options; If you get desperate, you can even start looking at hotties in New Jersey, Boston, anywhere in a 2 hour driving radius.
Consider sydney though, you can pay the precise same amount of money, and yet, you will be screwed. The sum total of girls on the site is miniscule in comparison: you're pay $1 per girl, or something. It's a very expensive low return proposition in comparison. If you dont like the 37 sydney girls or something, you can go check 47 girls in melbourne, but otherwise, you're pretty screwed.
Yes, the Stigma of JDate is annoying, but the reality is that even if it wasn't stigmatised, there is a serious problem in the supply ratio of people in this town.
Can we book in for the young JSA thing now? Frog.
Dear Shtiny Groin,
This is a fabulous blog. I've really enjoyed reading your articles. I was forwarded the link by Froggy, who has read a piece I wrote on Jewish dating from a woman's perspective- needless to say: we're every bit as pissed off and sexually frustrated as you guys.
I totally agree, we are our own worst enemies- and not because we intermarry, but rather because we care way too much about other peoples' life decisions and because we care way too much what other people think of us. If we can learn anything whatsoever from milennia of being persecuted, it should be- nobody likes us anyway, and we should all just get over people (gentile or otherwise) not liking us.
I do however think that your whole ratings system is a bit silly. It is my observation that the vast minority of relationships, particularly within our community, are composed of two people who really deserve and appreciate one another. The story is usually really nice woman meets dickhead guy, or tall dark and handsome appreciative man gets cought up with controlling uberbitch- of course faithful meets philanderer is as classic a combination as black and white. If similar ratings were really the secret to a lasting relationship, then bad partners would never happen to good people.
Anyway, I'll consider coming to your party- although I should point out that it's just an orgy by any other name with a political twist (political twists are not exactly unusual attachments to orgies either). I do, however, admire your courage in throwing the party at all, and it would be nice to have a reminder of what sex feels like, since I've only been dating Jewish people, I've kind of forgotten.
Thanks for the article,
Katherine
This is some post, and I mean that as a compliment. You've provided an accurate explication of some of the myriad issues involved with being (and staying) single, despite the apparent "options."
I'm a singles writer in NYC as well as a blogger, and am always interested in hearing about how the single life is being lived by Jews in other cities, so feel free to drop a line. In the interim, will keep reading and will check out 539, to see if it looks any different from the NYC singles scene...
And btw, allow me to share my one-liner about the reason for the difference in cost between JDate and American Singles:
Kosher meat is always more expensive.
This is a good article and my eema would kiss you. It is very true. I am a b'nei israel (convert for ya'll who don't know) and I see it all the time. where Jewish men especiall prefer to marry out and then look down their nose at someone who worked hard to become part of the "tribe". It is quite interesting but I understand it. rationalizing it won't help but coming to a resolution will. What is that resolution. Well i don't have a clue but pointing out the flaws is a step towards it though. Great post
T
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